smalin mowi:

Jun 12, 2010 - @nphony It's true, this piece is not stylistically contemporary, but that's not what Stravinsky is saying. He's saying that there are things in it that we've not moved beyond, nor even equaled. A important aspect of this is Beethoven's use of syncopation. We're thrown into this at 0:55 with the start of the fugue proper: the counter-theme is rhythmically ambiguous (either the second or the fourth note could be a strong beat), and the main theme is then totally off the beat. ... (cont.)

smalin mowi:

Jun 12, 2010 - @nphony (cont.) ... This avoidance of the beat continues throughout the exposition; it's not until the partial cadence at 1:25 that there's significant event that's clearly on a downbeat (and the full cadence of the exposition at 1:29 happens mid-measure). For me, the sense that the thematic core of the music seldom "touches a foot to the ground" is a big part of its magic; the rhythmic events that are measure-aligned refer to these meter-escaping motives, but never drag them down to earth.

nphony mowi:

Jun 12, 2010 - I can start the video randomly just about anywhere and if I just listen and tap my foot to the beat I'm almost always getting extremely bold reinforcement of the beat. There's very little tension against that. The few spots where it is really avoiding the beat, like the fugue entry, it repeats the same syncopation over and over. Tonal resolution on the beat is not what I'm talking about. All sorts of resolutions are avoided etc, but the accents are still square on the beat mostly.

nphony mowi:

Jun 12, 2010 - You can argue all you like about it. I've played music like this and I know how interesting it is as a performer to grapple with all the details, including in the rhythm. It still, in the end, lacks the type of more nuanced and interesting rhythms of more contemporary music. Essentially everything here fits in a rigid grid. There's no apparent tuplets or poly-rhythms or back-beat, not much rubato, certainly no groove, and even the hockets aren't very interesting.

nphony mowi:

Jun 12, 2010 - Individual parts and sections are syncopated, but it doesn't add up to real rhythmic interest. Perhaps the real issue is that the rhythm groupings are always blatant even when syncopated. The theme is particularly strong in having extremely obvious rhythmic groupings with no room for any nuanced interpretation by the listener.

nphony mowi:

Jun 12, 2010 - Lastly, keep in mind that I'm not saying this in comparison to nursery-rhymes or something. I recognize that it could easily be less rhythmically interesting, but then nobody would bother having ever performed it.

energycore345 mowi:

Jun 24, 2010 - You can not talk about the fugue as though it was contemporary, because in the end it is Beethoven's, nevermind his deafness.

nphony mowi:

Jun 24, 2010 - Of course that's right. I was reacting to a mix of my own feelings about it and the Stravinsky quote at the end of the video. I fundamentally do not share Stravinsky's impression of the piece.

HolyMotherofGrid mowi:

Jul 11, 2010 - Awesome!!!! This is one of my ALL-TIME favorite Beethoven masterpieces - and to see it graphically like this is pure joy for me. Thank you. I hope you do lots more great music in this format - it truly helps one understand and even "feel" the art better.

kaiserkill mowi:

Sep 30, 2010 - great, thanks!

Gargantupimp mowi:

Dec 15, 2010 - Who fukin cares its better than anything stravinsky wrote and better than anything you could write. BAtshit rythms dont equate to good music

cloudrebelio mowi:

Jan 15, 2011 - you cant listen to this music, you must feel it 

marianoarenaza mowi:

Jan 17, 2012 - No se supone que tenga que ser linda. este tipo no sabia lo lejos que estaba llegando! hacia musica moderna en el 1800

convolvulus1 mowi:

Jan 23, 2012 - The miracle of this piece is not the parts, but the whole, especially the almost lyrical transformation of the main fugal theme that takes place in the last few bars. This has always got me. It's as if these titanic struggles that have been taking place in the body of the work suddenly find a completely satisying resolution. There is a kind of triumphant hope in that which we need more than ever.

TheDougster123 mowi:

Feb 23, 2012 - Who heard the footsteps 5:34?

Chefodeath mowi:

Mar 6, 2012 - You know, I don't think it's terribly unreasonable to say the fact that Beethoven was deaf is what allowed him to compose this piece. Obviously he intended for a complex dissonant piece, but I think the fact that he was unable to aurally hear it might have given him immunity to the knee-jerk reaction most listeners would have. Perhaps the fact that it remained a mental excercise for him kept him from softening it.

phreak1999 mowi:

Mar 9, 2012 - thx musanim, cool music

xxJewHunterxx mowi:

Mar 10, 2012 - its nothing